Ever wonder if your rats are just playing…..or are they fighting? If they are fighting, should you be concerned and separate them before anyone gets hurt? Let’s look at the differences between playing, establishing dominance and serious pet rat fighting.
PLAYING
It’s easy to tell when your rats are playing. They’re having a great time. You observe them bouncing around with no puffed-up fur, no biting and no blood is drawn.
DOMINATING
The line gets a little fuzzy when pet rats are establishing dominance. They’re beyond playing but your rats are still not really fighting. Even though there’s no biting or puffed-up fur, you can sense the intensity and the potential for a fight.
When living in groups, there’s usually at least one rat who wants to establish his or her dominance. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Having a pecking order can helps them live together more harmoniously.
Pinning (but not on Pinterest)
Rats assert their power by pinning another rat onto their back. As long as the rat being pinned just stays on their back, they’ll live together peacefully. However, if two of your rats persist in attempting to dominate each other without either one conceding, intervention may be necessary. When they’re males, neutering one or both will often resolve the issue.
Here’s a video of my rat, Evan, pinning his brother, Chet, onto his back. Observe how gentle Evan is while still establishing his dominance. Also notice Chet just stays on his back until Evan is satisfied his dominance is official:
This next video shows Twyla, a 2-year-old spayed female, being introduced to Henderson when he was about 3 months old. Twyla had lost her best friend in the world about a month earlier. Although Twyla had been living with me for over a year, she easily allowed this newcomer (smart, young Henderson) to establish dominance over her. Previously I had never seen a new rat establish dominance over my current rat during the initial stages of introductions. Again, notice that while Henderson is gently pinning Twyla, she easily accepts his domination.
Note that pinning never ends. Once a rat has established their dominance by pinning the others on their backs, they will continue doing so. This behavior can occur daily. When the rats become older, sometimes the drive to pin may fade.
Power Grooming
Another way pet rats assert their dominance is by power grooming. This is when one rat aggressively grooms another rat. The rat being power groomed may squeak in protest but usually puts up with the offensive behavior. Like pinning, this behavior may occur repeatedly.
FIGHTING
You’ll know your rats are engaging in serious fighting if you observe:
- Puffed up fur – Rats will puff up their fur so they appear twice as big. Being bigger makes them more intimidating.
- Standing on their hind legs facing one another like they’re getting ready to have a boxing match.
- Sidling up (approaching the other rat from the side). This behavior is often accompanied by using a hind leg to kick the other rat. It looks like a karate kick.
- Hissing
The above behaviors are signs of imminent danger. Rats engaging in this behavior need to be separated immediately. Ideally, you’ll already be observing your rats closely before the behavior has escalated to this level. It helps to be ready to distract them by having a toy nearby or a string for them to chase. Don’t give them a treat when they’re displaying aggression because they associate food as a reward for positive behavior.
Don’t let them duke it out!
A precursor to fighting and biting is when two rats face one another, standing up on their hind legs as if they’re about to “duke it out.” Sometimes they’ll stand in this position for a minute or so just staring at one another. This definitely isn’t a behavior you want to encourage. Again, it’s best to turn their attention elsewhere and introduce a new activity. (This is called “pattern interrupt”.) Make sure to distract them before they’ve been staring at one another for too long.
If you have two rats whom you know aren’t completely harmonious, make sure to have the following items on hand. Both will serve to protect both you and your rats from getting injured:
- Roll of paper towels – serves as a soft, thick “club” you can use to separate them.
- Terry cloth bath towel or fleece blanket – you can throw this over the aggressive rat to stop him or her from attacking the other rat.
Again, if you have two males who are repeatedly fighting, neutering can help. Bear in mind it takes 6-8 weeks post-neuter before their aggression fully subsides. Because of this your aggressive rat will need to live separately until his temperament has improved.
If you have two female rats who are fighting, try to find and eliminate the cause of the fighting. (For example, if they’re fighting over food or a toy, take it away and see if this takes care of the problem.) If they were just recently introduced to one another, return to an earlier phase of the introductory process. This will give them the chance to get reacquainted slowly and safely.
Knowing the difference between playing, dominating and fighting makes all the difference toward making life more enjoyable for you and your rats.
updated 11/21/23
Hello, I know this thread is older but I was hoping for some advice on my two young female rats.
Their names are Harley and Ivy, and I got them from a breeder but they aren’t litter-mates. I don’t know if they were housed together before I adopted them, and I didn’t think to ask until I found threads about how to introduce rats and realized I might have messed up.
The girls get into semi-frequent tiffs with each other, and most involve Ivy pinned and squeaking or the two of them boxing. They haven’t drawn blood from what I can tell, but they’re both new and skittish–I’ve only had them for about a week.
The fights have been getting more frequent in the past two days, and I’m not sure what to do. During the day they cuddle and get along, but at night they get into scuffles loud enough that I can hear them.
Additionally, Harley seems to have a biting problem with humans. I think I tried to interact with her too soon and scared her and that’s why she’s been reacting so strongly to any hands near her, but I don’t want her to turn her fear and aggression on Ivy.
Should I separate the two of them, or is their fighting natural and okay as long as they don’t hurt each other? I’m not sure what to do about it.
Thank you!
Hi Sarah,
It’s okay if your rats weren’t housed together before. This wouldn’t make a difference since they’re both in completely new environments. Introductions are most important when you’re introducing a new rat to rats you already have.
Fighting is normal and okay as long as there’s no bloodshed. It sounds like they may be establishing who’s going to be the dominant rat.
They’re probably fighting at night a lot because they’re used to being awake at night. If you play with them and get them out more during the day, they can eventually adapt to your sleeping schedule.
When Ivy gets pinned, does she stay on her back until Harley lets her go? If she does, that’s an excellent sign.
The boxing is a more serious issue. Hopefully they won’t be doing this for very long. When they box, does their fur stand out? If so, I’d separate them immediately. Use a bath towel or a paper towel roll to separate them instead of your hands.
Regarding Harley biting you, have you read my article Pet Rat Bites: Why they do it and how to stop them?. Basically, you want to set Harley up for success and not even give her the opportunity to bite your hand or fingers. If you do place your hand close to her, including picking her up, go extra slow and talk softly to her letting her know it’s okay, you’re not going to hurt her. Also, never pick her up when she’s not looking at you…..you don’t want to surprise her which could make her want to bite because she’s frightened.
Remember, Harley and Ivy are super new to you. It can even take months before they’re in their routine behavior patterns. It sounds like you know this and that you’re going to be an excellent rat parent! You’re doing a fantastic job of observing their behavior and researching rat behavior.
If you want to supply additional information such as whether Ivy stays on her back when pinned and whether or not their fur gets puffed up when they’re boxing—-or any other status updates—feel free to email me. I’m going to email you a link to this response so you’ll have my email address.
I hope this has been helpful.
CongRATulations on your new family members! I’m excited for you. :)
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Hi! I have two rats, Mac and Cheese. Both of them are the most human friendly rats I’ve ever met. However, recently Cheese has started picking on Mac. The first time it happened was 3 AM, and I was woken up by squealing. I went to the cage, and found both rats in the hammock, with Cheese pinning Mac down, biting him. I immediately separated them, and put Cheese in a smaller cage for the moment (I just didn’t have a larger one for him). After several days, where they were both allowed lots of time outside in the room, I put them back together, and things were going smoothly. But recently, the fighting has started again. Not as bad as before, but Mac does have a significant bite mark on him. Any advice? They were cousins, born and raised in the same cage in the shelter. I’ve noticed the behavior worsens when they don’t get a lot of out time in the room. I am a bit of a new owner, but am very open to learning, and love them very much, and simply want the best. I’m wondering if a larger cage with more toys may help? Their cage isn’t small, like your average pet smart cage, but there are bigger ones. Again, it’s not bare either, but there could be more toys. Thank you! I worry a lot about them. They used to be the best of friends, and I don’t know what changed the behavior. It started when the winter started, don’t know if that changes anything.
Hi Anna,
My hunch is that your boys are adolescents and that this new aggression could be hormonal. If this is the case, neutering can definitely help. To know for sure, it would be helpful to know how old Mac and Cheese are and for how long you’ve had them living with you. Even so, from what you’ve written, I’m going to bet it’s hormonal.
Years ago, I adopted 3 brothers from someone who could no longer care for them. They’d always gotten along super well. I think they were over a year old when I got them, so the aggression that ensued was not necessarily hormonal. Even though they’d lived harmoniously with their previous owner—and were peacefully coinhabiting the cage at my home for at least 6 months—they eventually started fighting.
It was mostly one rat who was harassing the others. So, I got that particular rat neutered. From then on, the boys lived together harmoniously…..until one of the unneutered boys started fighting with his brothers. I got him neutered. The third brother never did need to be neutered. After getting just 2 of the brothers neutered, they lived together peacefully.
I’m telling you this story because I’ve seen first-hand how much neutering can help. Here is more information on neutering on my website.
Good observation you made about the behavior worsening when they don’t get a lot of outside their cage time. Can you maybe combine having them out while you’re doing something you have to do in your room? For example, on the days when I go into the office where I work, I have my girls out while I’m putting on my makeup and getting dressed for work. Each evening, I have my rats out while I’m scooping their litter and changing their water bottles. I have them out when I’m folding laundry or working on my laptop….you get the idea. Are there some times where you can incorporate having your rats out while you’re doing things you need to do anyways?
Inside their cage, it’s great you’re aware of the importance of giving them things that keep them occupied. They do love having lots of things to do, especially things they feel the need to take care of. You could try leaving out treat dispensers which cause them to have to work to get their food. Also try scatter feeding them rather than leaving their main food out in a dish. Here’s a post on my website about cage enrichment, in case you find it helpful.
You mentioned you found a bite mark on one of your rats. I highly recommend you take your rat to the vet anytime you find a bite mark. There’s a chance the wound could get infected, in which case an antibiotic would be very useful. Also, sometimes it’s difficult to find all of the wounds. I took one of my rats to an emergency vet once due to a bite wound. It turned out there was an additional huge gash I’d missed which the vet found. My rat even needed sutures for the additional wound. I was so glad I took him in to be checked.
I love your rats’ names!
I hope this information is helpful. Don’t hesitate to let me know if you need any additional information or clarification or feel free to provide an update.
Best Wishes to You, Mac & Cheese,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Hi! I would really love some advice if possible regarding my rats. We have 4 rats, Proteus, Valentine, Ambrose and Rodney. Proteus and Valentine we got together as babies from a mixed litter when they were about 10 weeks old. Always acted like brothers, a few scuffles as expected but nothing major. We introduced a third rat several months later, Rodney, they accepted him very well, rodney has a very nice temperament and they all got on like a house on fire. The problem was less then a month later when we got Ambrose. He also had a welcoming start to the cage and other rats, but his personality was more aloof and it took him time to be comfortable completely with me and my partner and the other rats. Several weeks ago, we witnessed the first fight during cage time between Proteus and Ambrose (forgot to mention, proteus has always been the alpha). We separated them as we have two cages that normally connect by a pipe. All was well after this, but only for a short time. Proteus often seemed to be the aggressor. We figured it was due to the fact that Ambrose was reaching very similar size to Proteus and they were sorting out their hierarchy, and Ambrose was not putting up with Proteus trying to dominate him. We thought it would get better, but it has not. They go from being good buds in the cage, to having fights during free roam time where proteus will often chase ambrose round and instigate fights. This causes ambrose to become aggressive too, and he has started to pick on the other rats, Rodney and Valentine, who are as sweet as can be and never start any fights. Sometimes Valentine is very weary of Ambrose now around the cage and it makes me sad to see it, not all the time, but sometimes. We are strongly thinking to get Proteus and Ambrose neutured as every other day, there is some strife between Proteus and Ambrose, which then makes all the other rats tense. Ambrose had a deep ish wound on his belly from a fight several weeks ago, we were so worried it would get infected so we seperate d them for a time while we took care of Ambrose. Valentine has also been a victim of wounds from the enhanced aggression in the cage, and Rodney (my gentle favourite boy!) has recently got a small cut on his leg from ambrose and proteus picking on him. Sorry for this incredibly long message, I just wanted to put in as much detail about them all, but i hope you can offer some advice. I get so worried now during outside play time especially, i’m always just waiting for a fight to break out, and i worry about when they wrestle too, as they are supposed to for play and socialising of course but i get scared it will quickly turn sour. I have rat ptsd.
Hi Chloe,
The details you provided are incredibly helpful. Here are a few observations/recommendations:
Yes, I agree it’s a good idea to have at least one of your rats neutered. You could just start with Proteus. Then again, it certainly wouldn’t hurt to have both Proteus and Ambrose neutered. I’m not sure if you’ve read my page on pet rat neutering and spaying yet. On this page, I talk about 4 rats I adopted all together who were happy and peaceful living together in the beginning. Then one started being extremely aggressive. I got him neutered. Then a second rat became aggressive. I neutered him. I did this again for a third rat after he became aggressive. The fourth rat never did need to get neutered. Each time I neutered them, it made a huge difference. I highly encourage you to get at least Proteus neutered as soon as possible.
Regarding the various wounds you described, have you had them checked out by a veterinarian who’s knowledgeable about and experienced with pet rats? It’s so important to do this! Once, I took a rat to an emergency vet because he had a huge gash on the side of his neck (as a result from a fight with his cagemate). The vet found another significant wound I hadn’t even noticed! My rat needed sutures and the vet placed him on antibiotics to prevent infection.
Keep in mind that prior to neutering, most vets have you bring in your rat for an initial exam anyways. Having your rats examined by a qualified veterinarian is extremely helpful
That’s so great they’re all good buds inside the cage. That is ideal! Until you get Proteus and/or Ambrose neutered, I’d altnernate having Ambrose and Proteus out with your other rats. For example, you’ll have 2 groups who play together during free range time:
Group 1: Proteus, Valentine, Rodney
Group 2: Ambrose Valentine, Rodney
Hopefully those 2 groups will do fine when they’re together
I hope my responses are helpful. Let me know if you have any additional questions or need any clarification on what I’ve written.
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Thanks so much for the reply, I really appreciate the time you have put into this! We have not had the vet check them out specifically for the wounds they sustained during fighting, although recently we took Ambrose individually to the vets for a respiratory illness (he’s doing a lot better now he’s on antibiotics) and mentioned his injury from fighting, the vet checked him over and said he looked good. We have still been having problems with specifically Proteus and Ambrose, so much so that we were worried about them living safely together in the big main cage and ambrose has been put into the smaller cage. There have been no problems with Proteus, Valentine and Rodney, they all get on like a house on fire. Me and my partner started to do separate re introduction sessions between Ambrose and Proteus in the bath tub, which yielded mixed results, sometimes good sometimes bad. It seemed like Proteus was really trying his hardest to be friendly and social with Ambrose, but Ambrose was too skittish and uncomfortable which caused him to sometimes lash out and freeze when Proteus groomed him. We noticed he would whine in discomfort. I think a mistake we have made regarding this was that the bathtub was a bad neutral ground, half the time they would not be near each other and if they were close, Ambrose would not be comfortable and was on fight or flight mode. We are now trying the carrier method and moving up sizes for them. Amazingly they have absolutely no issues in the travel cage we have and are currently snuggling together in there like best friends, so it’s really promising. I have read we should not do this in stages as it can hinder progress. Proteus has been grooming Ambrose and he has been accepting this, so i’m very hopeful towards this method. After a while we will put them in a “hamster cage” size enclosure and move on up.
Wow, Chloe! It sound like you’re doing a fantastic job of trying out new ideas and methods and learning what works best for your rats. I really appreciate your writing your update and letting me know about what’s working well for Proteus and Ambrose.
Hope it’s continuing to go well! Let me know anytime you have questions. I’m always here for you and your rats.
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Hello, I know this post is older but Im hoping to still get some insight from you if possible!
I have two rats, Sprout and Bean, both females. They have been cage mates for about a year and a half by this point. Bean has always, since pretty much I got them, been the dominant rat. This has never raised concern for me as I know it’s natural, she pins Sprout, aggressively grooms her, etc. Sprout has always (minus a few protest squeaks) taken Bean’s dominance without putting up her own fight. It’s been that way as long as I can remember.
To preface, we have a single critter nation cage for our two girls. Lots of hammocks, hides (igloos), and things to climb. It’s normal to sometimes hear them tiff, if Sprout really isn’t in the mood to take Beans dominance play or is just sort of annoyed. A few squeaks or some rat boxing (where Sprout backs down) but nothing of concern. Yesterday however, while sitting at my computer desk, out of nowhere, I hear screeches and tumbling. I panicked and ran over and saw the girls in pretty much a spinning ball of fluff.
I know better than to separate them during a fight by hand, and thankfully it was over as quickly as it started. I waited for them to calm a bit before letting my hand in the cage for sniffs, and pulled Bean out and let her free roam with me for about a half hour. Assessed both the rats, no blood or chunks of fur missing as far as I could see. I immediately assumed Bean was the instigator, and afterwards when she seemed cooled off, put her back in the cage with Sprout. No other sounds were made, they ate dinner side by side and even chose the same Sputnik to snuggle in for bed as they usually do.
Today, it happened again. Only this time I was sitting in front of their cage watching them roam around, and noticed what was going on. My beta, Sprout, was seemingly seeking out Bean. Puffed fur, sidestepping and kicking her hind leg. Rat boxing, way way way longer than usual, almost resisting Bean trying to dominance pin her… Just astonishingly out of character for Sprout. I got their attention with a shake of their favourite yogurt drop treats, separated them before it got out of hand, and kept Bean out for about an hour in a carrier. I unfortunately don’t have an extra cage so I didn’t want to leave Bean out for long in that tiny space, and especially didn’t want to worsen the situation by leaving them separated longer than need be. A few more times today Sprout had puffed her fur around Bean, but other than that there’s been no more fighting as of right now. They once again ate normally, sometimes would pass by one another without a glance, and are sleeping together once again, in a single Sputnik (out of 3 Sputnik options), as they normally do any other day. (Very rare for them to sleep separately but they do sometimes).
As worried as I am because of this being out of character Sprout, I know the saying is no blood no foul… But I can’t help feeling something is just plain wrong. I filled an extra bowl of food in case it happens to be about that, they have multiple water sources and as I said, multiple Sputniks, hammocks and hides.
I could understand the cage lacking enrichment thus equaling boredom aggression, as it’s difficult to rearrange the cage drastically, but I plan to try my best to rearrange as much as I can of the cage tomorrow when I do my clean. I know there’s multiple reasons this could be happening, like an underlying illness (though they’ve both had URI’s before and been totally fine and normal throughout), so I’m also going to book a vets appointment as they are no doubt getting older in the Rattie world, and it could be more intense.
I’m just extremely stressed about this whole thing. Not wanting to separate my girls while simultaneously worrying about both of their safeties is pulling me in two different directions. It’s been hours since the last sound came from their cage and yet I’m dreading hearing it ever again.
Hi Jai,
I completely understand your concerns.
From what you’ve written it sounds like you’re being proactive and separating them as soon as there’s a hint of conflict. What you’re doing is the perfect response.
Just so you know, you can separate them when they’re fighting. You can do this by using a bath towel or a roll of paper towels. The towel can be used to cover one or both of them. Wrap them up in the towel and move them to a different location. This will serve as a “pattern interrupt”. (Similar to your shaking the can of treats to divert their attention.) The roll of paper towels can likewise be used to push them apart from one another and to ultimately separate them without your hands getting bitten.
I like that you’re thinking about enrichment inside their cage. It really does help to keep changing out different hammocks, chew toys, and intermittently putting in food foraging toys. They love the variety and it keeps them intellectually stimulated.
I also like that you’re thinking about taking them to the vet. It can’t hurt to have them examined by a veterinarian who’s knowledgeable about and experienced with pet rats. There very well could be some sort of disease process going on. A possibility could be Bean has a new health issue causing Sprout to now viewing her as being weaker. I’ve had this happen several times in my past 33 years of having rats.
It sounds like you’ve only observed them fighting while they’re inside their cage. (I’m not sure if there have been any new developments since you wrote this.) I would not allow them to be together in the cage UNLESS you’re there to observe them and to intervene if a fight starts. You could alternate swapping them out to your travel carrier when you’re not there to directly observe them.
If you find that they’re perfectly peaceful during 3-5 days of them being together—while you’re observing them—you could gradually start letting them be together in the cage without you’re being there. I’d start with 10 minutes and gradually building up the time they’re in they’re cage together.
Throughout this time, having them outside their cage together would likely be very beneficial. This would include “free range” time as well as riding on your shoulders or being with you while you’re reading, on your computer, watching TV, etc.
I wish there was a “magic answer” for you. The reality is you need to try different things while closely monitoring their behavior and health. Let me know if you have any additional questions and/or if you need any clarification on what I’ve written.
Sending positive wishes for you and your rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
My 2 girls aren’t yet a year old (people time) anyway, split won’t stop biting banana and banana is getting scabs and will occasionally bleed because of this, but split isn’t like biting, it’s a bite and hold and it’s always under the same ear. And I don’t know what to do about it. Do I have to separate then. Or do I just need a bigger cage. Like idk what to do.
Hi Hunter,
My first question is: Have you already had your rats examined by a veterinarian who’s knowledgeable about and experienced with pet rats? The reason I ask is that if there are wounds on Banana, Banana may need medical care. This could include antibiotics to prevent possible infection. In addition, there may be a disease or some other health issue that you’re not yet aware of that’s causing Split to bite Banana.
After they’re thoroughly examined by a competent pet rat vet, then you can focus on the behavioral aspect of this problem. If Split is breaking the skin and Banana is bleeding, you may need to separate them. This depends on where your rats are when the biting occurs. Are they inside their cage? If it is occuring only inside their cage, getting a larger cage could be helpful.
It could also be helpful to allow them to play more outside of their cage. If you see the biting occuring outside their cage as well as inside the cage, that would also be an indication they may need to be separated…at least temporarily.
Is Split also pinning Banana down on her back? As you already read above, it’s common for one rat to be dominant.
Also, the “bite and hold” as you described it, may not be concerning. As long as there is no bloodshed, it’s not a problem.
All in all, you really do need to take them to a vet to rule out any medical issues. After that it’s a matter of trying new things. Getting the larger cage does seem like a great first option. Another option is to see how they do when they’re outside their cage together. Have you taken them out to explore your home much? (Make sure the room is safe for pet rats before allowing them to explore.)
I hope at least some of what I’ve written is helpful. Feel free to write again if you need any clarification or would like to update me on their progress.
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Ok so I don’t really have vet money, I’ll keep an eye on it, they will occasionally throw eachother down but mostly just split grabbing banana and she will bleed most of the time, she has a pretty bad scab (it has gotten better over time). I order Them a larger critter nation cage. Cause they are in a cage that I’m pretty sure is meant for one rat not 2. And they do this both outside in there play pen and in the cage.
Good to know those additional details, Hunter.
If Banana is bleeding from being bitten by Split, it is important to keep them separated. Bite wounds can cause infections. If a rat has a wound, they should be on an antibiotic.
Since this is occuring both inside and outside their cage, you could have them both out of their cage while closely monitoring them. You’ll need to keep Split from biting Banana. Be ready to immediately separate them if Split starts acting aggressive.
That’s great you’re getting them a larger cage. In the beginning, I’d only allow them to both be in the cage together for about 10 minutes. Don’t give Split the opportunity to bite Banana. As long as it’s going well, you can gradually increase the amount ot time they spend together in the cage. (For example, you could increase the amount of time by 5 minutes each day.)
Feel free to keep me updated and let me know if you have any further questions.
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
I have two pet rats, both male and they are about a year old, I got them when they six months old.
For a while, everything was fine, they were both energetic, never slept together or cuddled but they never fought with each other.
One day they started fighting and It seemed playful. A couple months later I got a new cage and they began fighting more aggressively.
One night I woke up because their squeaking was so loud, and when I looked at them they both had lines of blood on their back end. I immediately separated them, and they have been separated since, but I put them together when they go outside, but even then they still fight. I got them neutered and it didn’t seem to help.
The fighting has gotten better now, and for an hour sometimes I let them roam the cage together, and they still fight but less aggressive. After reading this website I put them together to examine them. One rat, (the more dominant one) held the other rat down for a long time. The less dominant rat accepted that, but was groomed too hard, which resulted in squeaking.
I also noticed the more dominant one biting and tugging on the less dominant rats skin, including the neck.
Hi Rhea,
How long ago were your rats neutered? You may already know, it can take up to 6-8 weeks to resolve aggression caused by hormones.
It sounds hopeful that your dominant rat holds down your other rat for a long time. And that your less dominant rat accepts this. Grooming too hard is also called power grooming.
As for the “biting and tugging”, including on the neck, as long as no blood it is okay.
Remember, in most cases one rat will be dominant over the other. As long as this is accepted by the non-dominant rat, they will live together harmoniously.
How has it been going with them lately? Are you seeing any lessening of aggression now that it’s been even longer after their neuters?
I hope everything’s improving. Please don’t hesitate to let me know if you have any specific questions, need any clarification on what I wrote or feel free to email me an update.
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Hi! I came across your post when searching for solutions for my problem. I am a classroom teacher (I have eighteen 9-12 year old students) with two female pet rats who are about seven months old now. In the last few weeks, after they returned from spending spring break in a household with a dog (I understand that the dog’s stress about them being there prevented them from getting much time outside the cage), one of them (Sage) has started to be aggressive towards the other rat (Basil). She has been coming up and biting Basil’s neck, causing Basil to squeak. Sage has also been building a large nest in the corner of the cage, putting lots of bedding from their dig box in one of the litter boxes, and surrounding it with more bedding, food, and some of their ladders and other toys. Save and also been stealing food from Basil and is looking bigger than her. I have not noticed either of their hair standing on end or other fighting signs you have described. Should we put them in separate cages? Any insight you would be able to offer would be much appreciated! Thank you so much!
Hi Casey,
As long as there is no bleeding as a result of Sage biting Basil, it is not a serious aggression problem. Often, one rat does need to be the dominant rat. From what you’ve described, it sounds like Sage is successfully establishing her dominance over Basil, especially since there is no puffed-up fur.
If you’re finding that Basil is bleeding from wounds inflicted by Sage then, yes, they will need to be separated. Let me know if this is the case and, if so, I’ll be glad to help coach you on the best steps to take after separating them.
Does Sage pin Basil on her back? And, if so, does Basil submit and allow this to happen? If you’re observing Basil allowing Sage to pin her on her back. then this especially means Sage has successfully established herself as the dominant rat.
Also, keep in mind, that Sage will continue to establish dominance for the duration of their relationship with one another. In other words, Sage will continue showing Basil she’s in charge. This is an ongoing thing….i.e. It never ends. :)
Are you able to take them out while they’re in the classroom? This may help lessen Sage’s bullying behavior. This is true because when they’re outside the cage, they’re on equal footing.
I hope my response has been helpful. Feel free to ask any additional questions, provide any updates or ask for any clarification on what I’ve written.
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Hello. I was wondering if I could have some advice. I had 2 females, 18 months old. one had to be put down so we got 3 new babies asap. we quarantined them for two weeks, and my older rat seemed very interested in the babies so we thought introduction would go well. They did well in a neutral space, but when we put them (supervised) in a cage together, I think the 3 babies overwhelmed my older girl. We have a 4 tiered cage, so I blocked off half for the babies and half for my older girl, and letting them have breaks in between getting to know each other. I think the babies are a little too bold- the older one ofter succeeds in pinning them and they accept, but sometimes a baby will get on her hind legs. Could you help pls?
Hi Juno,
Thanks for asking your great question. That’s wonderful you got new friends for your newly single rat.
Have you read How to Ace Pet Rat Introductions yet? You may find some answers to your questions in this article. As you’ll see in the article on pet rat introductions, it can take many short sessions before your rats will all get along. It sounds like you may have gone a little too quickly with getting them inside a cage together.
That’s great they were doing well in a neutral space. I’d continue having them out together in a neutral space at least twice daily for about 15 minutes each time. The idea is you always want to end with them wanting more of one another. You want them to look forward to the next time.
When you do start gradually putting them together inside a cage, make sure it’s a “neutralized” cage. By this I mean it needs to be completely “fresh” and “new” to all of your rats. In other words, you need to place them in a cage that’s completely cleaned out and has entirely clean and/or new bedding, littler, boxes, hammocks, toys, etc. The idea is you want them to all be exploring an unfamiliar environment together. This helps unite them.
Another thing in my article on introducing pet rats that could really help your rats is the shared eating idea. (….having liquid foods placed on smaller and smaller sized plates.)
The fact that one of your babies will sometimes stand on their hind legs, isn’t as concerning since they are babies and since your older female is more often successful in pinning and having the babies accept being pinned. I’d be more alarmed if the baby or your adult were to get puffed up fur…..that would definitely be a sign you need to back off and go slower.
I hope you find at least some of these answers helpful. Keep remembering it really does take time (and many small sessions) to successfully introduce rats to one another. It’s so rewarding once they do all get along and live together harmoniously.
You’re definitely on the right track, though. I’d just go back a step or two and work back up to having them be in a cage together.
Let me know if you need any clarification and/or have any further questions. Feel free to keep me posted on how it’s going.
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Hi, I would be so so grateful if you could help. We have 2 female rats from pets at home (I know, we know better now!) back in September. We’ve done tonnes of research and managed to get to a point where we can handle them and let them out the cage for an hour a day, which has been going well for months. They have a huge 2 tiered cage and plenty of toys and places to sleep. We haven’t had any problems with them since we’ve had them, love them dearly.
In terms of their relationship with each other, they’ve always had times of play fighting and Gizmo humping Stripe (especially when out of the cage) but never had any injuries. Stripe has squealed on occasion, but usually they seem to resolve it and move away from each other.
A few days ago they were having a huge fight, worse than I’ve never seen. Their hair was standing on end, I also noticed that there were cuts on Stripe’s back and the base of her tail. I took Stripe out of the cage and she seemed to want to go back in, so I allowed it, however the fighting continued so I attempted to pick up Gizmo and she latched onto my thumb, literally biting straight through it and putting me in hospital (sorry to be gross, cannot tell you how painful it was!)
We split them up overnight but tried to reintroduce them and they have continued fighting. I have observed that it appears that Stripe is trying to get away from Gizmo, but she is following her around and continuing to show signs of dominance (putting Stripe on her back to groom her, kicking her) which led to further serious fights which we managed to split up by spraying them with water
I’m at a loss on how to move forward. We’ve continued to split them up but don’t want this to be a permanent solution cause they do seem lonely. We’re continuing to have them out the cage for free-roaming and they’re not showing any signs of being ill, they just seem their normal selves. We’ve considered neutering but unsure if this would help with them being females. Is there anything else we can do?
Hi Sophie,
I really feel for what you’re going through. It’s so frustrating and disappointing when this type of situation occurs. I’m also so sorry to hear that Gizmo bit you.
When Gizmo puts Stripe on her back, does Stripe immediately get back up or does she lay there submissively for a bit? If Stripe doesn’t stay on her back after Gizmo pins her, it sounds like she’s not willing to allow Gizmo to be in charge. Usually one rat does establish dominance and, if they don’t, then there will always be fighting.
You didn’t mention their ages, but the aggression could partly be due to hormones. There’s a good chance that spaying could help. If you only wanted to spay one, Gizmo would be the obvious choice. Spaying has so many benefits, though. If they’re young rats and you have a vet who’s experienced with performing rat spays, I highly recommend getting them both spayed.
In any case, I do think your first step should be taking them in to be examined by a veterinarian who’s knowledgeable about and experienced with pet rats. A good vet may notice or find things about which you’re unaware. I’ve had this happen many times even after over 20 years of owning rats! The fact that Stripe had several bite marks would in itself be an important reason to take her, in particular, to a vet. (I once had a rat who was bitten by another rat and I took the bitten rat to an emergency vet. The vet ended up discovering an additional, larger wound that I hadn’t even noticed!) Sometimes vets will prescribe antibiotics to keep infections away when a rat has wounds. Your vet will also be able to tell you if they think spaying may help. (Sometimes it’s hard to find vets who can perform pet rat spays, however…)
Other things to consider: How long have you had Stripe and Gizmo? If you’ve had them for a long time and they were always peaceful until now, then hormones could be contributing to the aggression. Also, have their been any changes in their environment that could’ve caused Gizmo to become hypervigilant and fearful? Do you have any new pets in your home?
Feel free to ask further questions and/or to give me additional details such as how old they are, how long you’ve had them, etc. However, I still, think the most helpful thing you can do is to take them in to be examined by a vet.
Hope this is helpful.
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Hey..
So I have 3 pet rats, 1 very playful, 1 very friendly and the last one very low key, but also the most dominant (zyz is his name). They used to “play” fight a lot, nothing out of the ordinary. Theyve been together since birth, all are around 8ish months old. Now, last couple of weeks I noticed the dominant one (Zyz), whenever he would get in a “play” fight with either of the other rats, he’d get puffed up fur.. The thing is, they sleep together, eat together no issues, so I haven’t been all that worried about this instance. They have 2 cages connected together, so they can use both and also the cages are always open whenever I’m home and considering I work from home, it’s almost 24/7 unless I’m out travelling which happens regulary, nonethelessthey play a lot outside and generally get out of the cages whenever they fancy and don’t stay closed in like prisoners. Now today really surprised me, I was in the kitchen cooking and heard louder than usual squeeking and like “running around” noises. It turned out, they were actually fighting, well one of them was, Zyz, he was super aggresive, he bit the playful one several times to the point of heavy bleeding (not the neck though). I immediately seperated the two, checked and took care of the wounds, hence my conclusion that only Zyz was fighting, because he himself had no bites. I have seperated them now and am thinking what next… I don’t want anything like this to happen again, should I let Zyz get castrated right away, or do you think I can try and let them try to live peacefully again? also sorry for my langauge in case of mistakes, it’s not my native tongue
Hi Kamil,
I’m curious to know if your rats were inside or outside their cage when Zyz bit his “roommates”. Knowing that would make a difference on what I’d recommend for the next step.
If they were all inside their cage I’d recommend keeping them separated unless you’re their to directly supervise them. You need to be ready to immediately separate them if you see Zyz get puffed up fur or act aggressive.
If they were outside the cage when the aggression occured, I’d recommend only allowing them to be out when you’re in the same room and able to supervise them. The main thing is you need to be able to separate them before anyone gets bitten.
There’s a good chance the aggression could be due to hormones. 8 months is around the age pet rats hit “puberty”. If hormones are causing the aggression, then it would be a good idea to neuter Zyz. To be sure it’s necessary, I’d recommend observing and supervising them closely, and if Zyz does get aggressive a second time then, yes, it’s time to neuter him.
The fact that “they sleep together, eat together no issues” is a good sign. This is why I’d give Zyz one more chance to show you whether he’s going to continue being aggressive.
It’s a good idea to have any rats who’ve been bitten examined by a veterinarian who’s knowledgeable about and experienced with pet rats. The reason for this is that the wound could become infected. Sometimes vets will prescribe an antibiotic to make sure the rat who was bitten doesn’t get infected. There’s also a chance your vet will find additional wounds you may not have even noticed.
I hope what I’ve written is helpful. Don’t hesitate to let me know any updates or if you have any additional questions.
Sending positive wishes to you and your rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Accidentally posted this as a reply to my first message and didn’t know if I was supposed to do it that way. Wanted to post it as a new message just in case (I did add a few details in the end too), but I didn’t see a way to delete the accidental reply, so apologies in advance for the double post (Please let me know if I should post it as a new thing or a reply or do something else if I have more questions, so I know what to do next time. Or if I’d be allowed to email you any further questions or something that would be great too).
Now the problem;
I feel like the fighting (/ “fighting”) is getting worse lately (more frequent, more noise) and I would like some advice on whether or not you think I should separate them, and if I should, how to go about this and if this is a temporary measure or if they’ll have to stay separated for the rest of their lives.
Or maybe there’s something else I could try, like seeing if I can have wiggles chemically neutered (as she seems to start the fights almost every time)?
Luckily I haven’t seen the puffed up fur at all, and most of the time the “fighting” doesn’t seem too serious. I don’t see the sidling much at all and it’s mostly wiggles chasing queenie around, trying to pin her down and power grooming her. Or “fighting” over food (mostly wiggles trying to claim everything as her own, including the treats I give queenie. Even if she hasn’t even started on her own treat yet).
Even when they face off against eachother (stand on their hind legs) it always seems to end in either one of them slowly pushing the other over or both of them just losing interest in the standoff after a while. They don’t actually box. They just have staring contests.
One time when wiggles tried to pick a fight queenie was eating and she just let her push her over as she continued to eat.
And earlier today wiggles was power grooming queenie in their litter box and queenie was making a lot of noise so I had a look, and after a while wiggles stopped grooming queenie and just lay on top of her with her eyes almost closed, keeping queenie pinned down but not doing anything else. And in her pinned down position queenie actually started grooming wiggles! Is this normal? That the “victim” of the power grooming grooms the other rat back and that the pinning rat allows this? It definitely looked cute. Haha.
But then there was yesterday…
From what I saw I’m guessing wiggles wanted to play with queenie but queenie wasn’t in the mood (but I could’ve read the situation wrong ofc. I’m no expert).
First wiggles chased queenie around for a while, and queenie kept running away. Then I guess queenie got tired of the game and stopped running. Wiggles grabbed queenie’s waist as if she was about to mount her, but queenie didn’t react. So wiggles tried again, and again there was no reaction from queenie. Then wiggles gave up on grabbing queenie and bit/ pulled at queenie’s side instead (it looked more like she was very briefly trying to drag queenie somewhere, rather than actually attempting to bite her/ attack her). I saw this biting behaviour a few more times while they were out in that playpen, but the part that really worried me was when wiggles started biting queenie’s ear in her attempt to dominate queenie. I couldn’t see if she bit hard, but queenie now has a wound on her ear that I don’t think is self-inflicted based on how it looks and what I saw.
My reason for saying “I don’t think it’s self inflicted” is that she currently has more wounds on her ears, and I think some of them ARE self-inflicted. The girls have been scratching a lot ever since I got them from that shop, and the scratching is mostly around the ear. Their nails are usually about as sharp as those of a cat (any tips on how to reduce this without cutting them?) and the other day I heard queenie squeak twice while scratching herself. Wiggles wasn’t anywhere near her at the time. Since the squeaking isn’t a normal part of her scratching I figured she must’ve accidentally clawed her own ear open a bit while scratching, since I later found some small wounds on her ears (I have cut their nails after I found those wounds. I don’t mind getting a bit scratched up by rat claws, but I don’t want them injuring themselves or eachother. Even if that means cutting rat nails under much protest and getting peed and pooped on).
Luckily rats heal fast and the wounds aren’t severe (her ears look a bit scratched up, but as far as I can tell no part of her ears was actually pierced all the way through or anything like that. They’re just small wounds that have already started to heal).
I asked the vet about the scratching a while ago, but he couldn’t find any parasites so he just left it at that and told me to observe them.
But considering they’re still scratching a lot and considering you can’t really see some parasites (like mites) I decided to have my boyfriend pick up some anti-parasite spot on for them today so I’ll administer that later and see if that helps with the scratching. I read some people use the stuff preventative for their pets, so I figured it probably wouldn’t harm them to try this, even if they don’t have parasites, as long as I follow the instructions and keep them separated for a few hours after using the stuff so they can’t lick it off eachother. And if they do have parasites hopefully this will help make them both feel better.
I wish the vets that specialise in exotic pets and rats were closer so I could’ve taken them to a “proper” vet for a complete check-up after I got them though. Just to be sure.
The pet shop vet diagnosed wiggles with a respiratory infection or something a week after I got them and put both rats on baytril and reumocam (which is technically a cat medicine) but when that didn’t really do anything they didn’t know what else to do. The rats don’t seem sick other than wiggles’ sneezing and occasional breath sounds at least.
Hi Nynke,
Here are my responses to what you wrote:
You’re welcome to ask questions in new posts or continue on the same thread or even to email me. Whatever is easiest for you. Since this post had more information than your “duplicate” post, I went ahead and removed that one.
Your Rats’ Veterinarian
It really is beneficial to find a veterinarian who’s knowledgeable about and experienced with pet rats. It makes such a huge difference in the quality of their lives. I haven’t lived near an exotics vet for the past 17 years, so I do drive a good distance to get high quality veterinary care for my rats. For years, I was driving an hour to get to my rats’ vet. Thankfully she moved her practice so that now she’s only about 30 minutes away. I highly, highly recommend you find and take your rats to a vet who’s experienced with pet rats. (Even if you do have to drive a little extra to get to one.)
Behavior – whether or not they’re fighting
As I mentioned in my last response to you, the dominating behavior doesn’t stop just because one rat has become the dominant rat. The dominant rat will ALWAYS show they’re in charge….over and over and over. In other words, it never ends.
It’s not uncommon for the rat being pinned to groom the dominant rat while being pinned. This is their way of being submissive and trying to please the dominant rat.
Usually when an aggressive rat bites another rat, the bite is aimed at their neck.
Questions for you to consider:
Do your rats sleep together?
Do they fight continually or are there times when they go about their lives in a friendly, normal manner?
Sleeping together is especially a sign that they are friends and that the dominant behavior hasn’t gotten out of control.
I would separate them only if you think one or both rats is in danger of getting bitten. Usually you have to keep them separate ongoing. You could still have them out during free range time as long as you closely supervise them and are prepared to separate them if needed. If you get Wiggles spayed, you’d only have to separate them while Wiggles is recovering from surgery and still has sutures.
Spaying
Spaying may very well help if you think Wiggles is excessively harassing Queenie. I’m pretty sure that the spay surgery is better at preventing other health problems in female rats than the chemical option. Also, keep in mind that the chemical spay is not permanent. (So, you’d likely be having it done more than once.) The spay surgery has so many benefits that, as long as you can find a fantastic rat vet, it’s really extraordinarily beneficial for their health and behavior. And I’m not usually someone who would choose surgery—usually I’d try anything else first before doing surgery. But you definitely have to have a well-qualified vet if you decide to get her spayed.
External parasites
If a rat is scratching, it generally does mean they have external parasitesExternal Parasites. That’s great you trimmed their nails to help prevent them from self-inflicted wounds from scratching. It’s usually best for a vet to prescribe a topical parasiticide. Some products sold in pet stores can actually cause harm. In the US, most vets prescribe Revolution for pet rats. Not sure if this is available where you are? In any case, your veterinarian will know what’s best for them to use.
Respiratory Disease
Have you read my page on respiratory disease? It will answer any questions you have about their respiratory health. You mentioned a few things that are covered on my respiratory disease page. One of them is that most vets don’t prescribe antibiotics long enough which makes it highly likely the problem will return.
Hopefully at least some of what I wrote above is helpful.
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Email would be great, but I don’t know your email address.
I would do a lot for my rats, and if “driving a bit longer” would get me to an experienced vet I would definitely do this. If I had a car I’d easily drive 2-3 hours to get them a good vet. The problem is I don’t have a car or even a driver’s license and it would be a 3-3,5 hour journey with several buses and trains to get to a vet who is experienced with rats (believe me, I’ve looked. I’ve dedicated the better part of a day to this. But if you think you can find something closer than 3 hours by public transport or if you could think of a better way to make a trip to one of these far away vets possible you’re very welcome to try. I’d appreciate the help, just as I really appreciate your replies to my posts). And that’s if you don’t miss any trains/ buses/ there aren’t any delays etc. And then after the vet visit it would be another 3- 3,5 hours back. For a big surgery or something I would definitely make this trip, but do you think it would still be in the rats’ best interest to make a long (probably 8ish hours total) journey if her only issues are some sneezes and breath sounds and she seems completely healthy otherwise? She’s still very active (she’s
actually the more active of the two) and loves treats and food. Doesn’t make a sick impression at all. You can barely even see any red stains around her nose even when you manage to look closely. Sometimes I’m not sure I can even see it at all.
If I’m missing anything important and you think it would still be in their best interest to make this long journey to an experienced vet for this please let me know and I’ll see what I can do.
All the rats I’ve owned before these two I’ve had when I still lived in holland, where every vet seems to know at least a bit about rats (haven’t had a vet before who didn’t seem confident in their knowledge about rats) and is willing to operate on them if necessary. As far as I know rats aren’t considered “exotic” pets over there and they’re treated the same as any cat, dog or rabbit. So when I got these girls I was not prepared for the lack of experience etc the vets over here have. I was actually shocked to learn that some vets here wouldn’t even operate on a rat to remove a tumor, which I think should be a basic skill for any vet who treats any rats at all, considering how often rats get them.
These girls are the first pets I got in this country (only been living in england for a few years now), and months before I got them I had researched stuff like vets in the area, and boarding in case I ever needed that. I had found several vets within about an hour’s travel, so I thought I had the vet thing covered when I got them. It wasn’t till after I already had them and took them to a vet for the first time over here that I learned that rats are considered exotic pets over here and that most vets here are pretty much clueless about them. I just wasn’t prepared for that at all!
I think they had the baytril for at least 14 days btw. That should be enough for a course of antibiotics, right? Or not? I did hear that if you give antibiotics too long it can be harmful too.
And it’s a while ago, so I’m not 100% sure about this (my memory is terrible), but I think even when they were on the antibiotics it didn’t really do much, if anything at all. It’s not that it came back after the antibiotics, it just never went away.
Other than biting her ear twice that one day I don’t think I’ve ever seen wiggles bite queenie, and their fights still don’t look agressive to me. It’s mostly wiggles chasing queenie, trying to mount her and/or pinning her and power grooming her. Yknow, dominant behaviour but not agressive.
My problem is that I’m not always there to supervise when they fight/ I can’t always see what’s happening, and I’m terrified I might miss something important (I’m really insecure and have severe fear of failure issues, if that wasn’t obvious yet). Like if one of them would get a small bite wound but I wouldn’t see it because the fur covers it. I know most of the noise they make is nothing to worry about, but I do keep worrying “what if this time it’s different?”, even though I think I’ve had one group of rats once (4-5 years ago) that actually fought at night, and it sounded a lot worse (maybe even a bit different too) than what I hear from these girls.
It does seem that queenie is slowly becoming a bit more submissive towards wiggles, but when she has a treat she likes she will still put up a fight (not a literal fight. Just pushing wiggles away etc) to keep her treat, which I think is fair. She will also still try to defend herself when wiggles is “harassing” her again, but it does seem to be less than before. I also don’t think I’ve seen queenie go after wiggles in quite a while and she submits more when being pinned, though she does still put up a bit of a fight at times.
When they’re awake they still fight… idk… I wanna say half the time maybe? Which is about the same amount as before, but I’ve also seen them live harmoniously together, just doing their own things, while they’re awake the rest of the time.
They fight about as much inside their cage as they do in their playpen and they even fought on me a few times (once by my neck, a few times on my chest inside my shirt). It’s not like angry spinning balls of fur and bits of fur flying everywhere or anything like that, and it’s super easy to put my hand between them and separate them. If it was an actual (serious) fight I wouldn’t be able to do that so easily without risking getting bitten or anything, right?
And for the sleeping together… there are still times that they choose to sleep apart, and times I suspect one of them might’ve kicked the other one out of their sleeping place after a little “argument”, but I think at least half the time, if not more, they do still sleep together. And I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing that they sometimes don’t sleep together either, as long as they still do sleep together other times. I have times/ days where I feel less social than other days too. I suspect it’s the same for rats?
I thought it was interesting to hear it’s actually not uncommon for the pinned rat to groom the dominant rat btw. I’ve never witnessed anything like it myself before.
As for the danger of getting bitten… do you think I have to worry about that one instance where wiggles bit queenie’s ear? Or could that just be a one time thing that probably won’t happen again?
Queenie looks a lot better already btw. Her right ear is still scratched up and healing, but her left ear is almost completely back to normal already.
Small update; just found out I get emails when you reply. They ended up in my spam folder so I had no clue. Just been checking this page every day/ few times a day to see if I had a reply. From now on I’ll pay more attention to the emails.
Isn’t revolution an antiparasitic for cats? I thought I read that somewhere anyway. I’m not sure if we get revolution over here. Personally I haven’t seen it.
I actually used beaphar anti-parasite spot on for my girls. It’s a well-known brand over here and they have boxes with pipettes designed especially for small animals like rodents (there is a version for syrian hamsters and gerbils that is also used for rats that weigh less than 300 grams, and an official one for rats, rabbits and ferrets for rats that weigh over 300 grams. The active ingredient is ivermectine). I’ve used this stuff before on rats that had parasites after it was prescribed by a vet I saw in holland, so it’s probably fine for these girls too. They didn’t suffer any side effects or anything after I used it on them anyway.
Next time I’ll probably seek out a vet’s advice again, just to be sure (this time I actually used it before I read your message that some products can be harmful. I didn’t know that. Is that true for antiparasitics that are specifically made for rats/ rodents too?), although I’m positive that if the vet here had prescribed anti-parasite for them he would’ve prescribed the same thing I used.
Thank you very much again for all the help and information by the way!
Hi, I have two male rats who are about 4 months old. They are siblings and hairless. I have noticed they have been going at it. They both are on there hind legs like they are boxing. But I can’t tell if it’s playing because they are so young and I can’t see if their hair is standing up haha. They only injury I found was a scratch on Stimpy. Is this how they play when they’re young or should I be concerned?
Hi Rhyan,
That’s so funny—I never thought about how you wouldn’t be able to see if their fur was puffed up if they’re hairless!
Because you don’t have that particular way to tell, you’ll have to rely more on the other ways. Being on their hind legs and facing off as if they’re boxing is a concern. Are you diverting their attention when you see them doing this so they move on to a different activity? The other major thing they do when they’re about to be aggressive is they kick at one another from the side or from behind like a horse would kick.
A good sign that you can look out for is the pinning behavior described above. You’ll know they’re getting along okay if whomever is being pinned just lays on their back and allows it. Also, if they’re sleeping together and grooming one another, those are usually signs they’re getting along.
You will develop a sense of what their particular behaviors are that indicate they’re becoming too aggressive with one another. You’re already on your way to doing this since you’re researching ideas and observing them so closely. If you ever have any doubts about whether or not their behavior is questionable, they probably are becoming aggressive. (Trust your instincts!)
I wish there was an easy black-and-white answer for you, but there really isn’t. If it would be helpful for you, you’re welcome to email me a video of your rats when they’re playing and I can let you know what I think. I’ll be emailing you to let you know I’ve responded here, so you’ll have my email address.
Keep in mind that hairless rats do tend to get scratched more easily. You just never want them to get bitten by one another—-hairless or not. Rat bites are usually fairly severe and it’s always important to take them in to see a vet if they do get bitten. Sometimes a vet will prescribe antibiotics if there’s risk of infection.
Hope what I’ve written is helpful. Feel free to ask any additional questions and/or to give me an update!
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Hi,
I have two young girls that I bought from a pet shop (I know. Not the best place to get rats. I normally would’ve gone to a breeder or rescue. This time was an exception for personal reasons). I’ve had them for about a month now. I don’t know their exact age, but think they’re around 12 weeks now.
They’ve been fighting a lot lately and I would like some advice/ a second opinion on if I should do anything about it. The problem is they are both showing a lot of dominant behaviour (from what I’ve observed and read here) and as far as I can tell their fights have all been about dominance, not agression, but there are a few things in your article that make me a little worried. I’ve observed the power grooming (this is the only time I hear one of them squeak when they fight), I’ve seen some of the sidling, and once or twice seen them stand up towards eachother (the boxing thing. This didn’t last long though). It’s mostly wiggles chasing queenie, but sometimes it’s the other way around too. When one of them chases the other around or tries to push her into a corner the “victim” can kick the other rat and push them away too (kinda like the sidling). They also pin eachother down quite a bit, with the pinned rat not always submitting easily or at all. Your article is saying that the boxing and sidling behaviours are bad and you should separate them immediately if you see this, but in this case I wonder if that’s still the right thing to do, as they obviously haven’t sorted out who’s in charge yet and despite all these behaviours they don’t seem to actually hurt eachother/ the fights don’t seem to escalate past this point. I haven’t seen any wounds or blood or anything. And when they’re not fighting they still groom eachother and sleep together half the time too.
So far I’ve mostly been letting them fight it out, but I do wonder how long I should let this go on and if I should be worried about this behaviour.
I also noticed that since they started fighting they started peeing everywhere a lot too. Not big puddles, but more trails of small drops of pee. Could this be a dominance thing in this case too? Like trying to mark the territory as hers as another power move towards the other rat (and everyone else)?
Kind regards,
Nynke.
Hi Nynke,
Thanks for asking your questions. I’d like to start by saying that everything I wrote in the above article is a generalization. It could be that sidling and stand-offs aren’t dangerous signs for your rats. In most cases, however, I’ve personally found that sidling and standoffs are behaviors that show a fight is eminent. If you are observing your rats sidling and standing up/facing off without it appearing they’re on the brink of a fight, it might mean this behavior isn’t a dangerous sign for your rats.
I will say that the one behavior I would ALWAYS separate them for without exception is if you see one or both of them with puffed-up fur.
It does make it more difficult for them to live harmoniously if one of your rats doesn’t submit to being pinned. If they continue to pin one another and neither is submissive, they may always squabble. However, as long as it doesn’t escalate to bloodshed, they’ll be okay.
Keep in mind that sometimes female rats will settle down a little as they mature. Young females are usually super active.
On the power grooming, that’s often a behavior that never stops. In fact, a lot of the dominant behaviors tend to be ongoing….even the pinning. It’s not like the dominant rat says, “Okay, I know you know I’m dominant, so I don’t have to prove it to you anymore.” Oh no, the dominant rat has to keep proving it over and over.
Yes, the urine marking could be because they’re establishing their territories.
You are doing a fantastic job of observing your rats and learning about their unique behaviors and interactions. That’s really the best thing you can do: Pay close attention to what is working well and, if you have any doubts, introduce a “pattern interrupt” to stop any potentially unwanted behavior before it gets out of hand.
I know what I’ve written above is not cut and dry or black and white. There are a lot of nuances involved. It sounds like you’re on the right track, though.
If you have any other questions and/or need any clarification on the above, don’t hesitate to let me know. Also, feel free to update me on their progress!
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
I rescued three boys last week. I brought them home from their foster. I believe they are brothers as they all have the same birthday. The foster let me know that one was very friendly, one was very shy, and the third is prone to URIs. The social one likes to be out of the cage and is curious about me but doesn’t want to bond. The sickly one is very gentle with me but nervous around me. The shy one wants nothing to do with me, unless I am giving treats. The shy one and the social one have started to face off a couple of times and they all seem a little sad and nervous. I am trying to handle each a little each day but the shy one has become more nervous around me. What am I doing wrong that they are all stressed?
Hi BJ,
CongRATulations on your new family members!
If you only rescued your 3 boys last week, they are most likely still getting used to their new environment. It can often take a month or more before they truly settle in.
It sounds like you’re doing a great job of getting to know their individual personalities. If you haven’t already read it, I think you really might benefit from my post Bonding with Your Pet Rats in 3 Easy Steps. It goes over the main things you can do to help your rats bond with you and get used to their new environment when you first bring them home.
Another post which has information I think you’ll find helpful is From Shy Rats Transformed: from Shy to Social Butterfly.
Please keep in mind that it’s normal for them to be nervous and distracted when you first bring them home. It really does take working with them on a daily basis over a period of time in order for them to acclimate to both you and their new environment. It sounds like you’re on the right path and that you just need to continue your daily interactions with them.
Regarding the shy one and the social one facing off, it’s perfectly normal for them to establish a hierarchy. One rat is usually in charge and the others become submissive to the dominant rat. If 2 or more rats are vying for the dominant position and none of them backs down, that’s when neutering can be especially helpful.
I would continue working with them and spending time as you’re already doing. Initially it will feel like it’s taking them forever to get used to you and their new home. Eventually, though, you’ll find they’ll become more trusting of you and more comfortable with their new living situation.
I hope my response is helpful for you. Feel free to ask additional questions and/or let me know if you need any clarification.
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
I can’t say thank you enough. 2 of my females are at it ever day lately. One female is constantly pinning, power grooming and on two occasions they have made it to the fighting stage. Only I didn’t know all of this until I read this. I now know how to handle it and when to step in which I have been going crazy trying to make that decision. Thanks again
Hi Shannon,
Thank you so much for letting me know this information is helpful. It means a lot to me to receive this positive feedback from you!
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Hello, I have an issue with my rats and I hope you can give me some advice.
I currently have 3 girls. Zari turned 2 last month and she lives with the sisters Choco and Pippa who’ll be 1,5 years next month. They’ve been together for over a year. Since a month or two, Zari is getting weaker, similar to the first stage of hind leg degeneration. She used to be the dominant one. Pippa has been attacking her, drawing blood, and I think she is now the dominant one. However, I still see Pippa attacking Zari, the latter is unable to protect herself properly and has wounds very frequently, mainly around her neck/scruff. Choco has no issues with either.
When I’m there and see them fight, I take Pippa apart for a while then put her back later. But I can’t always be there to prevent injuries.
What do I do? Do I have to seperate Pippa from the others, have her live alone? Could it be Pippa doesn’t want Zari to be around because of her weakness? The strange thing is, I had a fourth rat who I put to sleep a few months ago because of a brain tumor and she was friendly to that rat, despite her illness.
I’m planning to get 2 new girls this summer and I might be able to keep two groups but I would highly prefer not to.
Thank you in advance!
Hi Josine,
That’s a tricky situation you have there. That is very interesting, too, that Pippa didn’t try to attack your rat with the brain tumor but she’s attacking Zari who is now showing signs of weakness.
Here are some things you can try:
First of all, if Zari is showing signs of hind leg degeneration, it’s best to modify Zari’s housing so she doesn’t have access to boxes or ledges that would be difficult for her to jump on or off of.
Do you have 2 separate cages or the ability to partition off your current cage? If so, you could have Zari alternate between living by herself or with Choco. Zari would always be in the modified cage/section (with low levels for her to more easily maneuver on and off of). Choco would alternate between living with Zari or Pippa. You could switch them back and forth daily. After several weeks of doing this, you could then try gradually re-introducing them using some of the tips in How to Ace Pet Rat Introductions. If they all do end up living together again, they would all have to live in the cage with lower levels. (i.e. no high-hanging hammocks or ledges or tall boxes)
Do you allow them out for free range time? If so, does Pippa still attack Zari while they’re out of their cage playing? As long as you’re closely supervising your rats, you can have them all out of their cage together. During this time, if you see Pippa start to attack Zari, you’ll need to immediately distract Pippa so she doesn’t even get the chance to actually attack Pippa. Ways to distract her include picking her up or by luring her away with a dangling a feather or string for her to chase.
You could also try having all 3 out on your body. (—as long as Pippa wouldn’t attack while they’re all on your shoulders or inside your shirt.)
Another thing that could really help is to have all 3 out in an environment in which they’ve never been before. This could be on top of a bed, or a dining room table—as long as you have the surface’s edges safely set up with makeshift walls or closely guarded so they don’t fall or jump off.
I would pick a couple of the above ideas and try them out for a week. This really is all about trial and error…..along with careful observation of what works and what doesn’t.
Feel free to update me on their progress, ask any further questions or for any clarification on the above.
Sending positive wishes for harmonious relationships among your rats!
Jasmine | About Pet RatsJasmine | About Pet Rats
Hello,I am needing advice.I have two 6mnth old bucks rats dave and Harry. They got on well, untill he other night where they got in to proper fight and bite each others side. I have separated them n they been to vet but dave seems to be not wanting to come out of his cadge anymore, both r in separated cadge but can see each other. Dave is aggressive if try clean him out. I hope neutering them will help. But how can I keep him happy and active now. He seems very unhappy and its so sad to see Harry looking for dave. Dave puffed up couple times but seems less aggressive n his own cadge when Harry comes over? Should I put them n seprate room or would that be terrible for them n later introductions again?
Hi Em,
I feel for what you’re going through. It’s no fun when your rats are fighting and you have to separate them. Just so you know, 6 months is often the age where they act like adolescents and are more likely to fight.
It’s a good sign that you see Harry looking for Dave. That means that Harry isn’t overly stressed by Dave’s aggression and that he still wants to be friends.
If Dave is the only rat who’s being aggressive, you can try just neutering him first. On my page on neutering you can read about 3 brothers I once had of whom I neutered just 2 of them, one at a time.
For Dave, I would figure out ways to get him to come out of his cage. You could coax him outside his cage door and onto your arm with a treat. If he’s aggressive with you when you clean his cage, it would be best to have him out of his cage while you’re cleaning it. If you don’t have a suitable space where he can “hang out” while you clean his cage, you can place him in a little carrier that’s all set up comfortably for him.
You would only want to separate their housing so they couldn’t see one another if one of them is constantly puffing up. It’s not terrible to put them in separate rooms and reintroduce them later if one or both are constantly puffed up and agitated.
The best way to keep them happy until neutering one or both is to spend time individually with each of them. Have them out on your shoulder. You can even try having them both out on your shoulders at the same time. Often they won’t fight if they’re out with you on your body. (Such as on your shoulders or inside your shirt.) You can find more tips for ways to spend time with them on my page on Bonding with Pet Rats.
I hope my responses are helpful for you. Feel free to ask further questions or give more information.
Best Wishes to You, Harry and Dave, (I love your rats’ names!)
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Hey, I have a question. I have 2 almost 6-month-old female dumbo rats from the same litter, Coffee and Toffee. Coffee is super shy and really only ever sociable toward me. Toffee on the other hand is the Alpha of the 2 of them and is generally more sociable toward people. I haven’t ever had any problems until just a few weeks ago. I have begun seeing balding and scabbing along the back of Coffee’s neck recently and have been doing a ton of research to see what I need to do to stop this behavior. I do see them play-fighting a lot in the cage that I have them in. I make sure that they have plenty of enrichment, food, water, and space, but I can’t seem to find out why this has been happening. I try not to show any favoritism and I feed them around the same amount. I let them explore my bedroom every now and then with my supervision so that they can experience new things. I honestly don’t know what I’m doing wrong at this point.
Hi Alex,
It sounds like Toffee has been barbering Coffee by power grooming her. It is a bit concerning that Coffee has scabbing in addition to the balding area. Scabbing could make it so she’s prone to getting an infection. There’s also a slight chance of external parasites—when you see scabs they’re often caused by a rat scratching at themselves due to (sometimes microscopic) bugs making them feel itchy.
First of all I’d make sure Coffee’s back toenails are trimmed if needed. That way the scabbing is not likely to worsen. Second, I’d make a vet appointment for them both. A veterinarian who’s knowledgeable about and experienced with pet rats will be able to tell you if the balding area is caused by barbering and/or if you rats have external parasites. It’s good to have regular checkups for rats anyways, so now would be the perfect time.
If it is barbering that’s causing Coffee to lose the fur on the back of her neck. There are a number of things you can try:
1) Cage enrichment – I know you wrote they have plenty of enrichment. However, I’d make sure you’re completely “redecorating” their cage weekly. This will give your rats new things to do, what seems like new territory to explore.
2) Free range time – You mentioned you do this every now and then. It would be very helpful for Coffee and Toffee to have time outside their cage on a daily basis.
3) Play with them. Have them chase a string or a ball. Make a maze. Create a treasure hunt.
4) If you do catch Toffee in the act of barbering Coffee, do something to distract Toffee so that her attention is taken over by something else. You can play with her by using your hand, walking up to her like it’s another rat and by gently wrestling with her. Most rats love doing this. They’ll also chase your hand around like they would a string. If you do this every time Toffee starts barbering Coffee, you may be able to stop the behavior eventually. Some rats also stop power grooming on their own after awhile.
Barbering isn’t the worst thing that could be happening and sometimes it’s almost impossible to stop from happening. I would still do everything you can to keep them both busy so that, if it is power grooming causing the hair loss, there will be less energy or attention available for this behavior.
Let me know if you have any other questions or need any clarifications. I’d be interested in hearing what your vet has to say if you’d like to write an update about how your rats are doing.
Best Wishes to You, Coffee & Toffee,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Hello. i recently got two 2 month old girl rats from same litter and the other one of them is lot bigger and alot more shy when the other is small and very social..the thing is i cant tell if the bigger one is bullying the smaller one..since they squeek tim to time running arounf the cage
(note: especially at night)
they have 2 food bowls what i fill up and lots of room to be in..so i dont know what to do i dont have space to seperate them either..im really stressed something will happen when im sleeping or gone???please help me
Hi Sally,
The way you’d be able to tell if one of your rats is being aggressive towards the other is by observing their behavior. Especially pay attention to the signs mentioned in the “Fighting” section in the above post. If one of your rats has puffed up fur, or they face each other while standing on their hind legs, these behaviors are the most often seen signs showing they’re about to fight.
In general, girls don’t usually fight one another. (There are always exceptions, of course!) You may find that one rat pins the other down on her back, however. This is perfectly normal as long as the rat who’s being pinned just stays there on her back until the dominant rat lets her get back up.
Squeaking while they’re running around their cage could just mean they’re playing. It’s only a problem if you’re also seeing the puffed up fur or them standing on their hind legs facing one another or the other behaviors listed in the “Fighting” section above.
Are you able to observe how they behave during the day? If they weren’t getting along, you’d be seeing them fighting during the day as well—-not just during the night.
I know how scary it is, though, if you’re not sure. It’s really great that you’re paying attention to this and are staying on top of it.
Have you tried having them outside their cage much yet? That’s another excellent time in which to observe how they’re behaving towards one another.
One way to help them bond closer with one another is to give them “shared activities”. Examples of these are allowing them to explore an unfamiliar area together. Or give them a dish of food (such as nutmilk yogurt) that they both can lick off of the same small plate at the same time. Or teach them a trick or have them both on your shoulders while you walk around your home.
That’s great you have food in 2 different bowls and lots of space for them. Both of these things are really helpful.
I hope at least some of what I’ve written has been useful for you. Let me know if you have further questions, need any clarification or even if you just want to write me an update on how they’re doing.
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
PS: I tried to email you using the email address you provided. I wanted to let you know I’d responded and to give you the link to my answer. I received an error message, however, stating “The email account that you tried to reach does not exist.” Hopefully you’ll still get to read my response.
We have two female rats approximately a year old. We inherited them from a not great situation in March. Spirit is the more dominant and fiesty rat. Sunshine is very docile. They fight a bit but always assumed it was just play fighting. Never seemed aggressive. Today they have had a fight and Spirit has drawn blood in several places on Sunshine. Been to the vet, they said she was fine. My question is, is there any chance of reintroducing them now or will they have to remain separated?
Hi Amy,
That’s great you went to the vet. I would reintroduce them. It’s very rare for 2 females to not get along.
It would be helpful if you can identify the surrounding circumstances that led up to Spirit biting Sunshine. Were they outside of their cage? If so, be sure and always keep a close watch on them to prevent this from happening again. If you can remember what led up to the biting and try to avoid this type of situation in the future, it could be very helpful.
If they were fighting while inside their cage, were they fighting about food? If the answer is “Yes”, you could try providing extra food so there’s enough for them both to share without having to fight over it.
If you need more help “troubleshooting” what led up to the fighting, let me know. It would also be helpful to know if there was “puffed up” fur before the aggression began. Also, does Spirit routinely pin Sunshine on her back? And, if so, does Sunshine allow this to occur?
A little more information would be helpful to know before I can really offer any ideas. Hopefully the above examples will be enough to get you started on figuring it out on your own. Don’t hesitate to let me know if I can help further. I know how frustrating this can be!
Hopefully they’re no longer having this problem. If they are, though, just let me know.
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Hello,
I purchased 2 baby female rats from the same litter about 6 months ago, olive is a lot more shy than her sister basil. Just in the last 2 or 3 days olive has been constantly pinning and biting basil’s ears, to the point of leaving scabs. Basil does appear to submit to it, but it has been very constant. It seems to have started out of the blue. They have lots of toys, puzzles, ladders, and boxes. I would love your thoughts & advice!
Hi Katie,
I have observed that whenever there’s a dramatic behavior change it can be due to one rat having developed symptoms of a disease and the other rat is sensing it. While I can’t be sure this is true in your case, I would take both of your rats in to be examined by a veterinarian who’s knowledgeable about and experienced with pet rats.
Alternatively, it’s not typical for a rat to be pinning and biting another rats’ ears. Are you actually observing Olive biting at Basil’s ears or are you just observing Olive pinning Basil onto her back? The reason why I’m asking this is that scabs on her ears could be caused by something else such as mites. Usually when a rat is being aggressive it will bite another rat in the neck area. Again, an exam by a knowledgeable veterinarian can help you determine what’s going on.
There are so many variables here. It sounds very unusual that Olive, who has previously been the more shy rat, is now behaving as the dominant rat. It is good that Basil is submitting to Olive’s pinning. I’m curious to know if, previously, Basil was pinning Olive down onto her back?
The above are some ideas to explore. I’d start with a vet exam. If you still have more questions and concerns after the vet exam, don’t hesitate to reach back out to me and I’ll be glad to help further.
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Hi there,
I recently introduced 3 young boys (now 11 weeks) to my 1 adult (1.5yrs – whose brother had recently passed away). Things went well with the carrier method and no major scuffles. A month on and they seemed to be living quite harmoniously. There was one baby (Vlad) however that seems to be quite aggressive and belligerent towards the other rats. Him and the adult (Willy) have had a few stand-offs but no blood drawn, until today…
This morning I woke up and saw that Vlad’s foot had swollen to three times its’ normal size and was bleeding continuously. He also had a bite mark on his torso, not bleeding. I took him to the vet immediately and have just been told that while there is no break his foot tissue is becoming necrotic and he will have to have his hind left leg amputated. Very sad indeed.
I have a big issue now with how and who to separate. Vlad is usually the aggressor, but he along with the other two babies are all brothers and they like to play together. I also don’t know for 100% that Willy caused this injury, as I did not see the fight.
I am completely at a loss for what to do. Should I separate Vlad and, once he has healed, start from the top with a reintroduction to the others, watching closely for any aggression? I feel absolutely terrible that he has been so badly injured, but I hope that this was just an unlucky place to be bitten rather than an especially aggressive fight. I certainly won’t be able to keep them separated forever although that is what the vet thinks would be best.
Thank you.
B
Hi Bobby,
I am so sorry to hear about what has happened with Vlad.
I’m wondering if his foot could’ve been injured another way than from being bitten by another rat? Could he have gotten his foot caught on something such as the wires of his cage? Usually getting it caught will cause it to swell up much more than a bite would. It’s also unusual that the tissue could become necrotic in less than a day’s time.
In any case, I hope he has healed up well and has recovered as best he could. I apologize tremendously for not being able to respond right away. I’m just now starting to get caught up on responding to everyone. I had 2 very sick rats, then an 8 day power outage and then another sick rat. Usually I’m able to respond much more quickly but it has been an unusually trying time for me.
You may have already made the decision on what type of living arrangement is now best for Vlad. From my perspective, I can think of at least 2 scenarios that could work out well for him.
Vlad may have stopped being aggressive and belligerent after his surgery. Willy may be a bit slower since he’s older. If these circumstances are both true, they could be good matches for living together. Often times when rats age, it’s best to keep them in a cage where there aren’t any high boxes or ledges from which they can fall or jump. If Vlad did end up getting a hind leg amputated, it’s probably best for him to live on mostly flat and/or low surfaces as well.
On the other hand, if Vlad is as feisty as ever and/or if Willy is a very young-acting 1.5 year old, I would pair up Willy with one of the other babies and Vlad could live with one of his brothers. (I’m not sure if you’re open to keeping your rats in groups of 2 living together.)
My heart goes out to you. I know how hard it is and how bad it feels when one of our rats gets injured. I hope you know that you’re doing your best and there’s no way you could have foreseen that this would have happened. The important thing is to learn from this experience and to remember that you’ve given Vlad excellent veterinary care.
Please feel free to email an update and I promise to write back much more promptly.
Sending positive wishes for you and your rats.
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
This was a helpful article but I still have a question. Wolfie and Moonlight are brothers and are 4 months old. Wolfie likes to pounce on Moonlight and they tussle but there has never been any puffy fur or sidling or anything like that. I thought they were just playing but last week I noticed a small scabbed over bite on Moonlight and found another one today. Moonlight doesn’t act like he’s afraid of Wolfie and they still sleep and cuddle together, but I’m not sure what to do now that Moonlight has two bite wounds even without traditional aggressive rat behavior from Wolfie.
Hi Shelby,
I apologize for my delay in responding. I will email you as well and let you know why it’s taken me the extra time before I could answer your question.
In any case, are you still finding bites on Moonlight? Have you actually seen Wolfie bite Moonlight or are you just seeing the scabs? If you’re just seeing the scabs and haven’t seen Wolfie actually bite Moonlight, the scabs could be caused by an external parasite.
Have you taken your rats in to be examined by a veterinarian who’s knowledgeable about and experienced with pet rats? It’s always a good idea to have rats examined regularly—-so many things can happen. A great rat vet can really be help you learn about anything that’s needed for your rats. Your vet should be able to let you know if the scabs are actually from bite wounds or from an internal parasite.
I’m curious to know if, when Wolfie pounces on Moonlight, does Wolfie pin Moonlight on his back? And then does Moonlight submit and lay there on his back? If the answer is yes to these questions, it is very unlikely that Wolfie would bite Moonlight since Moonlight is being submissive to Wolfie’s dominance.
If you’d like to let me know your answers to the above questions, I’m happy to help further if I can. I will respond faster next time!
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
The same thing happens to me: I have 2 males of 1 year and a half. They’ve always been together, and they may have gotten into fights at times (because I’ve seen boxing and siddling a few times, but since the violence didn’t seem to escalate much, I never thought it was serious).
I think Klaus was always the dominant one, he’s a bit older and bigger, but he’s also calmer than Crowley.
We have recently moved out of town, and because of my personal circumstances they have a less enriched environment. I honestly think that Crowley didn’t like the change of environment at all, and I don’t know if that’s why, but he started biting Klaus. First I saw the scabs, on the back and flanks, more and more, but then I saw several times Crowley chasing after Klaus, who was running everywhere.
But on the other hand, they still sometimes sleep together (but not so often as before) and I’ve continued to see aggressive grooming from Klaus to Crowley and dominance display from Klaus to Crowley, just like before. Also sometimes Crowley suddenly gets under Klaus, tail wagging, like “demanding” to groom him (or so it seems to me). But sometimes Crowley comes over when Klaus is eating or drinking and gets in the way or Klaus stops and walks away, though there’s no fight. Before, sometimes it was Klaus who kicked Crowley out of the feeder, more violently, but I put two feeders and it didn’t happen as much.
I don’t know what is going on, who is dominant now or what to do. Crowley also had a small wound, but much less. For now I keep them separated in two cages, but adjacent, and every 3 days I exchange them, so they don’t forget each other’s smell and because one cage is much smaller than the other. I plan to keep them that way until Klaus heals from his injuries and then start introducing them back to neutral ground and see what happens.
What you recommend me? Do you now whats might going on?
Also, I plann go to the vet.
Thank you very much.
Hi,
I’m wondering if the scabs you are seeing are from external parasites and not from being bitten by the other rat? Usually when a rat bites another rat it’s around their neck area. That’s the first thing I’d check on—so it’s great you’re already planning on taking them in to be examined by a veterinarian.
Do you ever see either of them getting puffed up fur? That is when you know it’s seriously dangerous for them to be together. Otherwise, some chasing and wrestling is normal.
Do you see them ever pinning one another down on their back? That would be how they would most likely enforce whichever one is dominant. As long as the rat being pinned on it’s back “submits” and stays on his back until the dominant rat lets him back up, then they’re getting along fine.
The boxing and sidling are stronger signs of aggression. It’s good you’re observing and watching out for this behavior.
My suggestion would be to spend more time with them outside of their cage (or cages). Create shared experiences for them: Have them explore an area together where they’ve never been before. This encourages them to feel closer to one another since they both are new to the situation you place them in but they’re already familiar with one another. It gives them a “we’re in this together” type of feeling.
You can make the same environment they’ve already been in “new” by placing boxes around the room (or on a table or bed) that they’ve never seen before. Or toys they’ve never seen before. Even a pile of laundry that they can explore could work.
You can give set out a dinner plate for them with food dabbed around the perimeter of the plate. (Nut milk yogurt, pasta sauce, pureed soup, apple sauce, thin smears of peanut butter.) You can gradually decrease the size of the plate so they’re having to lick off the food closer and closer to one another. Again, this is a shared experience that helps them bond with one another. Anytime you can set up experiences where they feel like they’re taking part in the same activity together will really help.
This also goes for when you put them back inside the same cage together. Make it a totally new home. Place things inside their cage that neither has ever seen before. Examples would be new boxes, hammocks, climbing ropes, etc.
If none of these ideas helps, you can always try neutering one rat at a time. Start with the most aggressive rat. Wait a month or two and see if this helps them live more harmoniously. If not, neuter the other rat as well.
I agree that the environmental change of moving to a new location could’ve been stressful and caused one or both to be more agitated than before. That’s fantastic that you put in a second feeder when you saw they were fighting over their food.
Let me know if you need any clarification on any of the above. Also feel free to give me a progress report. I’d love to hear how Crowley and Klaus are doing. Hope my response is helpful!
Best Wishes to You, Klaus & Crowley,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Hi! I have 2 female rats who share a cage, they’re coming close to 2 years old. There’s always been a clear dominant rat, but for the last few weeks she has been absolutely horrible to her cage mate. She bites her so much that poor Cheese currently has gashes all down her back. I can hear Apple (dominant) pinning her and nipping her and poor Cheese is squeaking at her. Yesterday, I was up at the cage and as Cheese came out of hiding to say hello, Apple reached up and started biting at Cheese’s fingers through the bars of the balcony she was standing on, with seemingly no warning or reason! Why is she being such a bully? Cheese has always been small, Apple is big and fat. Apple is also not very friendly towards us (she doesn’t like being handled as will nip often). We also have a neutered male rat who is in his own cage and is very friendly. He is about 10-12 months old. Sometimes all 3 play together in common areas. We also moved house 3 weeks ago, and Apple was stressed from this, hogging the food so much that Cheese lost weight and become quiet poorly. That has resolved, could Apple’s behaviour be from the stress of the move? Apple has also always barbered Cheese. Any ideas for me?
Hi Sam,
First of all, my apologies for taking so long in which to respond. My own 2 rats have been very sick and have required treatments and medications several times a day. I also work full-time. Then, we had an ice storm during which our power (and internet) were out for 8 days! After that one of my rats got another abscess on his face and needs extra care again. It’s been one thing after another!
Normally I’m able to respond much more quickly but this has been an especially difficult time. I really appreciate your patience and understanding.
Have things improved since you posted here? If they’re still the same, I’m wondering if Apple’s behavior immediately become more aggressive right after you moved? That would be the best way to know if it was the move that affected here. If Apple is still creating huge gashes down Cheese’s back, they should be separated until you can get them to be friends again. I do hope things have improved by now but, if they’re the same, please make sure to separate them.
It does sound like there’s a good chance the move could be the stressor causing Apple’s aggressive behavior. Another possible cause can sometimes be illness. I would definitely take them both in to see a veterinarian who’s knowledgeable about and experienced with pet rats. This way, if Cheese still has wounds the vet can take a look at them and see if Cheese needs medical attention including possible antibiotics because of the wounds.
There’s also a chance that either Apple or Cheese has developed some sort of illness that has caused the change in behavior to occur. Apple may not be feeling well and this could cause her to be “cranky” and aggressive toward Cheese. Or, if Cheese is getting sick, Apple may know that Cheese is compromised and be attacking her for that reason.
I’m surprised your neutered male is living in a cage all by himself. That’s great he comes out to play with them sometimes though. Have you tried having all 3 of them living together?
Do let me know if you still need help. Hopefully things have been improved by now. If not, though, I’m happy to help and will respond more quickly next time!
Thanks again for your patience and understanding while awaiting my response.
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
We have two rats that we purchased together in May as babies. The last couple of days they seem to be fighting. They have a fairly big cage and plenty of food and water. One does seem dominant and has for some time. I just noticed the less dominant rat was on her hind legs and the other rat was trying to get to her. The less dominant rat ran up the ramp to get away and the other rat chased her. What could be happening?
Hi Shelly,
From what you wrote it sounds like, since she was on her hind legs, your less dominant rat was trying to challenge your dominant rat. (I’m guessing your rat on her hind legs was facing towards your dominant rat.) Then, since she ran up the ramp to get away, it sounds like she realized she’s still not the dominant rat.
It’s a little hard to know for sure what was happening, though. It would help to have more information such as: Is your less dominant rat standing up on her hind legs and facing your dominant rat on a frequent basis? (Every day? Several times a day?) Or, was this just a one-time occurrence? Also, did your dominant rat stand up on her hind legs as well?
It would also be helpful to know whether or not you have 2 females or if you have 1 female and 1 male. In general, female rats don’t usually fight with one another. They do, however, still establish dominance so there’s one rat who’s “in charge”.
Feel free to provide additional information. That way I could give you a more detailed and specific response. I’m happy to help any time.
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Hey, thank you for the post!
I’m rather confused about the behaviour of two of my rats. I currently have three male rats, of which two are almost 10 weeks old (Arty and Kira) and one is 12 weeks old (Scraps). It seems that the older one is not interested much in the younger ones, sometimes all of them cuddle together but mostly the two younger ones are cuddling.
Kira will try to groom Scraps and Scraps will just ignore him and run away. After a while, Scraps will pin Kira down (Scraps is quite a bit heavier) and rather aggressively groom him. After Scraps is done grooming, Kira will usually just chase Scraps again. While being groomed Kira sometimes squeaks, but I’m not sure if he is just a noisy boy or in pain. Occasionally some fur will also be pulled out.
Should I be worried about this behaviour? They fight both during free roam and in the cage. It seems they are having issues establishing dominance and I’m afraid it’ll get out of hand some day when I’m not paying attention.
Hi Michèle,
Thanks for your excellent questions.
From what you’re describing, it sounds like Scraps is the dominant rat. When he grooms Kira aggressively, that’s known as “power grooming” which is another form of establishing dominance. (I’m adding this today to my post above—-I realize it should’ve already been included.)
Kira squeaking while he’s being pinned is not unusual. It sounds like Kira is submitting and allowing Scraps to pin him down…and to power groom him. This submission on Kira’s part is a key, positive component to having them get along with one another.
As mentioned in my post above, it is common for pinning to occur on a daily basis. Sometimes even several times a day is quite normal. For most rats, the establishing of dominance never ends.
You only need to be concerned when you see one or both of the following behaviors: Puffed up fur or standing on their hind legs. Especially if you see puffed up fur, it’s important to separate them immediately to prevent injuries from occurring. At that point, whichever rat is the aggressor may benefit from being neutered.
A word of caution for the future: As you know, your rats are quite young right now. Some male rats go through an adolescent stage during which they become more aggressive. This usually occurs when they’re around 7-9 months old. (It varies from rat to rat.) Again, neutering could be beneficial should any of your rats become more aggressive now or during adolescence.
I hope you find my response to be helpful. If you have any further questions, don’t hesitate to ask at any time.
Best Wishes to You, Scraps, Kira & Arty,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
Hello, I’m getting a pair soon. I’m wondering if it is safe for me to leave them in their cage at night or should I separate them at first? I can’t always monitor their fighting, sadly.
Hi Danielle,
That’s exciting you’re getting 2 rats soon! If your new rats were already living together it is definitely safe for you to leave them together in their cage at night.
You didn’t mention if you’re getting boys or girls. If your new rats are female you shouldn’t need to worry too much about fighting. If your new rats are males, however, some fighting could occur after they get acclimated to their new home. As mentioned in the above post, sometimes neutering does become necessary.
Don’t hesitate to let me know if you have other questions anytime.
Take Care,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
I have three boys, all brothers from the same litter who’ve been reared together their whole lives so idk if my situation is just different, but I don’t intervene and I let them work it out themselves. I’ve only had to separate once due to puffed up fur.
I think it’s important to know the difference between play fighting, dominance fighting, and actual fighting.
My boys play fought during kittenhood and adolescence. Sidling, boxing, chasing, pinning, etc I never intervened because one minute they’re ‘fighting’ and the next they’re cuddling and grooming each other. It’s common that rats who play fought together in adolescence will do so in adulthood.
The hierarchy is established now and the cage is peaceful. Every now and then they ‘fight’, and I let them work it out themselves. I don’t encourage it but I don’t mess with their structure.
Hi Morgan,
Thank you for contributing your experience and insights. You bring up an excellent point about not wanting to “mess with their structure”.
It still is important to continue monitoring, though. I once had three brothers who lived together peacefully for over a year before they started seriously, very aggressively fighting one another. I summarize what happened with them and how I had to neuter 2 of them in the “Anecdotal Note” on my page Spaying & Neutering Your Pet Rats.
Thanks again for your great comments. It sounds like you’re doing a wonderful job of taking care of your 3 boys.
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
This is really helpful. I thought that my girls were just establishing the hierarchy but I wasn’t 100% sure. It’s good to know that it’s not serious. The dominant rat, Georgie, also grooms them while pinning them down. Have you ever seen this before? She isn’t aggressive but a bit rough and sometimes a tiny clump of fur is nibbled out (no blood) so that the other two have little bald patches dotting their rump.
Hi Emma,
Thanks for letting me know this post was helpful for you. Great question about the grooming—-Yes, that is a power move too. It’s even called “power grooming”. From what you wrote it sounds like you have a bit of “barbering” going on there, too. I wrote about both of these behaviors (“power grooming” and “barbering”) in my post Pet Rat Terminology: 8 Words You Need to Know. As soon as I get a chance, I’ll add these behaviors to this post, too. Thank you for bringing this up!
Georgie sounds like she’s full of personality! :)
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats
THIS REALLY HELPED ME OUT.I OFTEN SEE BABIES ON THIER HIND LEGS,I WASN’T SURE IF THEY WERE FIGHTING OR JUST PLAYING.
Hi Wendy,
I’m so glad to hear this information was helpful for you!
Best Wishes to You & Your Rats,
Jasmine | About Pet Rats